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August 30 Responding to a few CommentsAs I suspected the Mutations blog caused a stir of very good comments from four well informed individuals. Ignoring comments degrading my intellectual integrity, education, or attempts at apologetics I will attempt to quickly address some of the relevant comments before moving on. It is possible that an adequate response will require a more in-depth scientific approach; so I apologize to those casual readers who are not well versed in scientific disciplines. “Plunge” made the comment that “There is no such thing as a purely, universally beneficial mutation”. And that higher fitness of parent bacteria is to be expected. We agree. Plunge realizes that the mutant strains come with certain defects. As was stated, even seemingly beneficial mutations come with a host of deleterious effects. Those deleterious effects tend to accumulate more rapidly than any beneficial effect. This is the central point of the example. Some studies have demonstrated temporary amelioration of costs, no doubt, but others clearly demonstrate that the fitness costs have huge negative ramifications. (See Sniegowski et. al, BioEssays, Nov, 2000) All of the commenters made remarks on the evolution of novel tissue types. I have to believe that none of you have done adequate research into the differentiation of primordial germ cells. Let’s take the incredible example of Shh working through Gli (a 5-zinc fingered TF). Notice that for any mutation to have a phenotypic expression it would have to A) hijack a current TF to activate the expression of the mutated gene (referred to as a protooncogene, which induce tumor formation.) or B) it would have to develop, simultaneously, a new signal transduction pathway to activate expression of this new mutation for further growth. But I stopped short in my argument before. This mutated cell would also need to find a way to initiate lateral inhibition, lest it too become tumorous. In direct response to “plunge” this does become a make or break necessity for evolving novel systems. In response to “David”, I understand and agree with your statement regarding homogeneity. Certainly there are mechanisms that allow for adaptive change in response to environmental stimuli. (Homologous recombination is an admittedly very good mechanism of natural selection and speciation.) To further address your question over the point of “ID”, it is testable and provable, that new species have and can arise through natural selection. Some of my own research has indicated this very premise. Evolution is great at tinkering with the currently available resources. Evolution, as stated before, is not adequate to explain the appearance of novel morphological features. Some believe that the common wrote answer is to claim the power of mutations. This argument does not stand up under a clear scrutiny of the nature of mutations. Have we ever, despite all human attempts, seen any mutation that gives a morphological selective advantage to any species? The answer is … No. I do not claim a religious agenda, yet this is another factor that causes me to seriously question the ability of evolution to explain the diversity of life.
August 04 The Delicate Balance between Philosophy & ScienceI am sorry for the long duration between blog entries. I have returned from New York where I was doing research at the American Museum of Natural History and was quite successful. (For many of you who have been genuinely or acerbically concerned that I would be “Destroying my scientific career” by questioning long held dogmas, I would like to reassure you that things are going great.) The research done in New York will soon result in a new publication and lectures for scientific societies in Southern California this month.
Now for a quick note on some of the comments in the last blog. “CamilleS1957” asked me “What are you grounded by?” She asserted that she is a strong Christian who believes in a living Creator God. This is my response for CamilleS1957. I am grounded by science. Honest objective science is what I actively seek in my life. Because of that I end up taking a lot of heat from both sides of this debate. There is nothing wrong with a solid faith in a deity, however, as a scientist I cannot and will not say that God absolutely exists and that makes a lot of Christians angry. I have certain personal beliefs and inclinations, but I do not have proof and will never have proof of an all powerful Creator God. I do not feel the need to defend the Bible at all. If the Bible is a true document then it will stand up to the test of science. (See my first blog entry.) My goal is to follow the scientific evidence where ever it leads me. On the other hand I have all the members of the evolutionist camp angry because I am willing to ask the difficult questions that the theory has either neglected or ignored. Especially in the area of Abiogenesis, naturalism has a lot of work to do before it can put together a really strong case for the origin of life. For writer “rrt” I want to reassure you that the tenants of evolution are certainly not fact. Evolution has only been testable and provable on very small scales. Evolutionary mechanisms have the ability to distinguish new species through adaptation and selective breeding, but it has never been clearly demonstrated that these mechanisms can be extrapolated into the origin of entirely unique features and systems. These are important questions that we have not found the answers to yet and may never find the answers too. And these questions have huge implications on our worldview and paradigm of life.
Maybe some of you have read Stephen Jay Gould’s book “Rocks of Ages”. Gould is one of my favorite scientific writers and I feel he was willing to look outside the box for answers which science was not yet ready to tackle. In this book, however, he asserts that Religion and Science operate in two distinct “Non-Overlapping Magisteria”. What he is saying is that both realms of thought have equal importance but occupy different areas of our human experience. Gould states that religion cannot speak on matters of science and science cannot speak on matters of metaphysics or religion. This is why it is pointless to try to prove that God exists. Where Gould makes the mistake though is when he states that one should not affect the other. Of course the discussion of our origins is going to affect our paradigm on life. It is preposterous to think that it would not deeply affect every worldview that we have.
In conclusion remaining open minded and truthful in this discussion is a very fine balancing act. We must not overstate our case on either side. "Science is what you know. Philosophy is what you don't know. "~ Bertrand Russell
Next time we will dive into the nature of mutations and what role they play in the evolutionary Yahtzee. June 22 Responding To a Few CommentsWow! I am amazed at the amount and content of all these comments! Allow me to take a moment to respond to a few (especially plunge from the Irreducible Complexity post) before moving on. It appears that many are getting very technical in their assessment of the debate. That is entirely fine. I have tried to keep my posts easy to read for everyone, but in this one instance we need to combat science with REAL science. So, be fore warned, you asked for it! First and foremost, many people have underestimated the power of evolution, and many people assume I make the same underestimation. For anyone reading, evolution (natural selection) most certainly occurs. We can clearly see that in the divergence of reproductively isolated species in all major taxa. My major question has always been, and continues to be, to wonder if this type of evolutionary change can account for the divergence of all life on planet Earth? Furthermore, how did this original life come into existence in the first place? It was certainly not by an evolutionary mechanism because this is outside the realm of evolution. (See post on Abiogenesis) Now to respond to a few pointed comments.
Writer “Trav-ling”, jumped to the mutation question before I could post and stated that Floyd Romesberg indicated that E. coli can promote a mutation in protein LexA to initiate antibiotic resistance. This is partially true. We see many organisms (insects, the flu, bacteria) who seem to develop some form of resistance to toxins. However, what you failed to mention is that this resistance typically comes at a high price. When the “wild type” (biology term for naturally occurring organism) is reintroduced into the population they rapidly out-compete the mutants and kill them off. As for your specific example the reason LexA comes with this fitness cost is because it specifically inhibits transcription of lexA and recA (40bp and 20bp respectively). These genes are critical to inducing the cells pleiotropic response (typically called the “SOS” response). This is damaging because the SOS response is a cells last ditch effort to save itself after considerable DNA damage. (Need a reference: Little et al. PNAS 81) So you are only partially correct in your statement. Many assert that sickle cells are a beneficial mutation as well, because they inhibit malaria. Excuse me, but I would rather take the malaria any day before the sickle cell anemia. (If you are not sure why look up the symptoms of sickle cell anemia.)
Another writer “Geoff Coupe” stated “One might almost believe that you've never followed the discussions over at The Panda's Thumb”. Come on now Geoff. I have been doing this for six years. I am well aquatinted with Gould’s argument about the Panda’s thumb. Few quick comments. Does that prove that a single celled organism can evolve into anything but a single cell. No. Furthermore, this looks more like the action of Natural selection reducing any over complicated system more than creating an entirely new one. Natural selection tends to get rid of things that are excessive or unnecessary. (It does this much more than it creates new systems. Look up Runaway Selection.) The panda’s thumb seems to me to be the simplification of a preexisting structure, more than a novel feature.
Lastly to the very vocal “Plunge”. You stated that Behe retorted his argument. Not true. When I spoke with him a few years ago he seemed more convinced of it than ever before. Check out his latest publication and I think you will be quite convinced. Secondly you questioned why modern cells had to spring into existence all at once. Let me ask you, exactly which major system of the cell would you remove first? “Modern” cells are not very different than proposed primitive cells in their basic design. I urge you to re-read the post on abiogenesis and consider the simple fact that all of the cells major systems to fulfill the seven keys to life have to be in place for even the first life to arise. Then to my statement that we have numerous examples of systems which cannot be derived by numerous slight modifications you said: Prove it. Think about the fact that amino acids (proteins) have to be constructed through use of an enzyme, which amazingly enough, is also a protein! Furthermore, aminoacytly-tRNA synthase is required to attach the amino acid to the tRNA. Without these systems you cannot construct proteins. How can the whole ribosome system be reduced? Show me. Want another? How about DNA replication? Imagine a world without DNA polymerase and the various molecular machines (like the helicase & primase) that help preserve the integrity of DNA. Furthermore, DNA replication is required for reproduction. What good is a cell that cannot reproduce? Prove to me how replication and transcription evolved and you will make major strides in convincing me that we might have a naturalistic origin. (You won’t find one by the way. I have been looking for years.) Also, I am glad you mentioned the Kreb Cycle and Blood Clotting evolution. Give me your references, because all the work I have ever seen about these systems never proposes to demonstrate the mechanism of evolution. Once I have those I will be happy to address them publicly.
In conclusion, I want to thank all of you for your comments. I have been trying to keep up with all the statements and have had a lot of fun reading them. Keep up the good discussion. Don’t forget Scientific Integrity is what this site is all about. June 18 What is Irreducible Complexity?Many people have heard of this concept of Irreducible Complexity, however, few really understand what it means. The concept has a long history in the debate, but was most eloquently depicted by Dr. Behe. (See Book List) The basic idea is that if a system can be observed which cannot come into existence through numerous gradual steps than it cannot be “evolved”. Dr. Behe, whom I have personally met, uses the example of a mouse trap. If you take away any piece of a simple mouse trap the entire system fails and is useless. Behe’s real life example was championed by the bacterial flagellum motor. This idea of Irreducible Complexity is wide spread. In a previous post we discussed abiogenesis. How could the first living cells come into existence? They need so many complex systems to be in operation simultaneously. Are they Irreducibly Complex? I would say so. Charles Darwin stated in his Origin of Species that “If it could be demonstrated that any complex organ existed, which could not possibly have been formed by numerous, successive, slight modifications, my theory would absolutely break down.” (Chapter 6) Darwin went on to say that he knew of no such system. However, in his time the inner workings of the cell were entirely unknown. We now have many examples of systems which cannot be formed by numerous slight modifications. In addition, many of these systems require very precise machinery. Evolution is very good at tinkering with things that already exist (commonly known as adaptation) but it has never been demonstrated that evolutionary process can lead the derivation of entirely unique systems. This leads us to wonder exactly how such systems might come into existence through an evolutionary mechanism. Is it even possible? Through my study and research I have not found anything to lead me to believe that it is. Furthermore, things through evolution happen through chance mutation. What is the nature of mutations? Is there such a thing as a beneficial mutation? This will the topic of our next discussion. June 04 Abiogenesis It is a common response of many that we simply evolved. This response, however, is a gross over simplification of the concept of evolution. Let us take a quick look at the very beginnings of life and see if we can answer the question of "how we got here." In conclusion, the first life on Earth did not have the ability to evolve. No matter what we believe about what happened afterward, scientists are still wondering how life first began. It appears to me that the cell is to complex to be random, and too specific to be produced in what we think of as the early earth. It leads me to think that there certainly was some form of Intelligent Designer, although I do not propose to who this designer is. _______________________________________________________________________________________ Alberts et. al. 2004. Essential Cell Biology. 2nd Ed. Garland Science New York, NY.
April 27 The Essence of Science and this BlogThis blog will mainly be used to describe interesting features found in science that directly relates to the debate over origins. (Creation / Evolution debate) I welcome comments and discussion over all the postings and look forward to seeing various view points. Before we begin let me first give you an idea of my ideology and view on science.
This blog will be an open discussion about findings in science that relate to our origins and all viewpoints and opinions expressed shall be respected. I hope anyone who chooses to read along will find it as enlightening as I am sure I will. Talk to you again soon.
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